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| Topic: Vegetarian view on abortion? | | Posted : 31/07/08 / Views : 2369 / Replies : | | | | | This has been in the news a lot recently, and I was wondering what the general view on this is among vegetarians? Do our ethical views oblige us to be pro life? Once a foetus starts to develop a central nervous system it is going to experience physical sensation, and more importantly pain so do the arguments that apply to vegetarianism also apply here? I've never had a strong view on this - I suppose because it doesn't really apply to me - but I will admit the concept of abortion does turn my stomach a bit. |
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| | [add your comments | all topics] | | | | Reply #1: Re: Vegetarian view on abortion? | | Posted : 29/05/08 | | | | I personally disagree with abortion quite strongly. It should not be possible to create life and then be given the right to just snuff it out. Whatever people say about 2 doctors opinions and the health of the mother and all those things, the reality is a lot of people are using it as some kind of retrospective form of contraception.
Yes its true in the past prior to abortion being legal or widespread women would resort to all manner of methods of home 'termination' extremely hazardous to themselves, but dont forget this was largely in an era when having a child out of marriage was very much frowned upon. These days with benefits and housing and all that mularkey theres no excuse to go around killing unborn children. The power to grant life or take it away is more akin to the world of the knife wielding gangster than anything else. |
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| | | Reply #2: Re: Vegetarian view on abortion? | | Posted : 29/05/08 | | | | I don't think vegetarianism and abortion have anything to do with each other.
I don't have a clear view on it. I think for some people it's right and some it's wrong. I do think people should be more careful. I don't see how women on the pill can have accidents except in rare cases. But I don't feel comfortable with the thought that once you got pregnant you'd be forced to keep it. I think there are too many unwanted children growing up with families who don't bother to bring them up properly - there are a lot of very undesirable people around, and I don't mean that they're ginger or have halitosis, there are violent thugs out there and they were all foetuses once. I think I've gone way off subject as they obviously couldn't be stopped by abortion but I guess I'm just thinking what if someone totally unsuitable wanted an abortion but wasn't allowed, what would that person turn out like? Or what if you were raped, or not well enough to care for a child? There's also the issue of aborting when you find something wrong with the child, and this can be done much later. I'm not sure what I think about that.
I would like to see the abortion time limit decreased to 12 weeks though. In school I read about an abortion (I can't remember how far gone the woman was) at a much later stage and the nurse crying as she had to put the tiny baby girl into an incinerator. It made me feel sick and still does.
I don't want children, so I'm making damn sure I never get pregnant. |
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| | | Reply #3: Re: Vegetarian view on abortion? | | Posted : 29/05/08 | |  | | anonymous |
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| | I totally agree with Demeter, I also see no connection between vegetarian/veganism and abortions.
And as Demeter pointed out there are so many different circumstances that must be considered.
There was a very long and heated discussion about this in another group I'm in, before that I hadn't really given it that much thought as I had not been faced with that situation, although I didn't disagree with abortions as such. But now after reading the discussion on the other site, I would object if someone else tred to take that choice away from women. Yes there are some women out there who are down right irresponsible, but in the end it is a very personal choice, one which only they can make. |
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| | | Reply #4: Re: Vegetarian view on abortion? | | Posted : 29/05/08 | | | | As a vegan and practising Buddhist, most people I meet assume that I'd be fiercely anti-abortion. However, like the other people who have commented on here, I believe it comes down to personal choice. In an ideal world, a pregnancy should be the result of loving union between two souls deeply in love with one another. However, as we are all well aware, this is not usually the case!
The main thing we have to bear in mind is that we are free to make any choice we like, just so long as we are prepared to meet the consequences of our actions. In the case of an unwanted pregnancy, I believe the man should be supportive of whatever the woman decides - it is after all inside HER body that a new being is growing...
In all this, unfortunately I speak from experience... |
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| | | Reply #5: Re: Vegetarian view on abortion? | | Posted : 29/05/08 | | | | Huge topic this....sadly haven't much time now but there is an obvious connection between the animal rights aspect of veganism, and anti-abortion arguments. In both cases they are protecting the rights of a "creature" who is unable to speak up for themselves, against the whim of someone else who is deciding to kill them, often for their own selfish purposes.
That's not to say I am coming down now heavily on one side, I confess I don't know enough about it to do that. I realise there are other aspects to it, just wanted to point out a similarity...
On a practical point, demeter mentioned unwanted kids, I see the point but I believe there is a severe shortage of kids for adoption in the UK so the homes are there if the mother doesn't want to keep the child. Will comment more when I have time....but it's a very sensitive topic on which feelings are obviously very strong. |
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| | | Reply #6: Re: Vegetarian view on abortion? | | Posted : 30/05/08 | | | | Abortion should be a matter of choice, each will have their own reasons, just one springs to mind while writing this, rape, this would be the opposite to free will.
Also you mentioned animals, there are animal right organisations which approve of controlled culling in certain situations.
Lastly the Chinese Government as a one baby rule per family, should they be caught with more than one the penalty is beyond belief, therefore the poor have to seek a very low form of "back street" abortion, more crude then the Victorian method. |
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| | | Reply #7: Re: Vegetarian view on abortion? | | Posted : 30/05/08 | | | | This is a subject close to my heart as I am a midwife so my working life involves pregnant women on a daily basis.
I am passionately pro-choice. I believe the decision to terminate a pregnancy is never taken lightly by any woman I have ever met. The comment about two doctors should not be underestimated, I wok with many doctors who will not refer for termination.
Perhaps an example from my work will make people think a little more.....
A number of years ago i cared for a woman who found out on an ultrasound scan at 11 weeks that her baby may have Downs syndrome, she undertook further testing which confirmed the diagnosis. She decided to continue with the pregnancy. At 21 weeks it was discovered that her baby had a major heart anomaly, she still continued the pregnancy, at 24 weeks it was discovered that her baby also had hydrocephalus (fluid on the brain) which was worsening day by day. It was very likely that her baby would die in utero. So at 24weeks she took the tough decision to terminate the pregnancy.....her baby was born alive and died after an hour. I was priviledged enough to be with her at the birth, it was hard to not resuscitate...her beautiful daughter died in her arms at one hour of age. I felt terrible for her that her "terminated" fetus had been born alive. She looked into my eyes and said "no, I've had an hour with her no-one can ever take away, if she had been stillborn I would never have had that time."
She was a brave courageous woman who took the hardest decision of her life for what she believed to be the best reason. having been born alive her baby also had "status", the birth and death had to be registered, acknowledging that she existed.
I appreciate that this is an unusal circumstance but ultimately all of us live with the choices we make and we should be loving and supporting people going through hard times whatever they may be. |
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| | | Reply #8: Re: Vegetarian view on abortion? | | Posted : 02/06/08 | | | | anonymous |
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| | All life is sacred and we of all people should never presume the right to judge whether a living being lives or dies.
The baby has no choice in life or death and for us as humans to feel we can just cast a living baby aside because it's inconveniant is beyond scandalous.
We all suffer in one way or another throughout life but that's no reason to terminate the life of another. We have a choice, the innocent baby doesnt.
Killing babies reduces life to being worthless and that is what we have become!
Nothing in life could be more black and white.
Having sold our very souls to the devil what do we have left worth living for?
It speaks volumes for the world today and is such a tragic mark against mankind.
DIARY OF AN UNBORN BABY
OCTOBER 5--Today my life began. My parents do not know it yet, I am as small as a seed of an apple, but it is I already. And I am to be a girl. I shall have blond hair and blue eyes. Just about everything is settled though, even the fact that I shall love flowers.
OCTOBER 19--Some say that I am not a real person yet, that only my mother exists. But I am a real person, just as a small crumb of bread is yet truly bread. My mother is. And I am.
OCTOBER 23--My mouth is just beginning to open now. Just think, in a year or so I shall be laughing and later talking. I know what my first word will be: MAMA.
OCTOBER 25--My heart began to beat today all by itself. From now on it shall gently beat for the rest of my life without ever stopping to rest! And after many years it will tire. It will stop, and then I shall die.
NOVEMBER 2--I am growing a bit every day. My arms and legs are beginning to take shape. But I have to wait a long time yet before those little legs will raise me to my mother's arms, before these little arms will be able to gather flowers and embrace my father.
NOVEMBER 12--Tiny fingers are beginning to form on my hands. Funny how small They are! I'll be able to stroke my mother's hair with them.
NOVEMBER 20--It wasn't until today that the doctor told mom that I am living here under her heart. Oh, how happy she must be! Are you happy, mom?
NOVEMBER 25--My mom and dad are probably thinking about a name for me. But they don't even know that I am a little girl. I want to be called Kathy. I am getting so big already.
DECEMBER 10--My hair is growing. It is smooth and bright and shiny. I wonder what kind of hair mom has.
DECEMBER 13--I am just about able to see. It is dark around me. When mom brings me into the world it will be full of sunshine and flowers. But what I want more than anything is to see my mom. How do you look, mom?
DECEMBER 24--I wonder if mom hears the whispering of my heart? Some children come into the world a little sick. But my heart is strong and healthy. It beats so evenly: tup-tup, tup-tup. You'll have a healthy little daughter, mom!
DECEMBER 28-- Today my mother killed me.
Author Unknown |
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| | | Reply #9: Re: Vegetarian view on abortion? | | Posted : 03/06/08 | | | | anonymous |
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| | | I'm sorry Walkawhile, but I can not agree, I still believe that it should be a woman's choice. Saying stuff like "Having sold our very souls to the devil what do we have left worth living for?" might be the way you choose to see it but I don't, I've heard all before and I have not been convinced yet. |
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| | | Reply #10: Re: Vegetarian view on abortion? | | Posted : 03/06/08 | | | | anonymous |
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| | Try looking at it from the childs persepective?
You say you disagree and it's all about choice? Well the choice is very simple. To kill a baby or not!
Society may have deemed it acceptable and that's the shame on society. Seems Adolf might not have been so unusual after all eh?
No one forces us to procreate and procreation has one specific purpose. To make a child, so how can we complain if it happens? Is that one moment of pleasure really worth the life of a child?
Dont blame the child for our failings.
We have been brainwashed to accept abortion. What does that say about us really?
How can we ever complain about animal rights when we dont even give our own offspring the right to life? |
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